“Science Will Never Be Anywhere Near the Truth”: Donald Hoffman with John Vervaeke

A conversation from Wonderstruck’s “What Is Reality?” symposium, recorded in Malta in June 2026. Hoffman lays out his interface theory of perception and the fitness-beats-truth argument: evolution tuned us to see what keeps us alive, not what is there. Vervaeke answers with relevance realization. They then ask why science can never close on a theory of everything, what the wisdom traditions add, and whether a mind needs a body, before audience questions press Hoffman on how his theory could turn out wrong.